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by shadows

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Unemployment is going up and working conditions are getting tougher. 

However, the CEO of AIG, Edward Liddy still has his job even after leading it near financial disaster and needing a bail-out of about $150 billion. 
And others in line for taxpayer bail-outs such as the major American auto makers, bankers, etc.  all intend to keep their top management in place even though they have led them to near ruin.

Makes you wonder doesn't it?  Top management can get rid of the average worker in a heartbeat, but yet they can nearly ruin their respective company and then have the nerve to ask for money to be provided by those same "average workers" in order to save them.

So how are the most ineffective and inefficient managers and executives able to retain their jobs and even enjoy more perks after receiving government bail-out money? 

They don't have a union that makes it too difficult to fire them do they?


How about those Corporate Boards that  are supposed to keep such things from happening?

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PegasusWing read my blog view my photos
Nov 12, 2008 | 10:16 AM

I am especially peeved that some of those CEO's took millions for retirement from the bail out dollars meant to keep the company afloat.
In the debates, Obama said that he thought they should go to prison.
In truth that was fraud and theft and misappropriations of funds. If he keeps no other promise, I hope those men are indited, have to pay back the money, and still are found guilty of theft and spend time in prison. Chain gang prison so they learn what real work is, not one of those damn country club prisons.

jeokar read my blog
Nov 12, 2008 | 10:48 AM

He's not President YET!!! They HAVEN'T Impeached Bush and Cheney YET!!! EITHER. Just MAYBE that might change after January 20, 2009 and I really HOPE SO ... there is not time limit on Impeachment. Gee, what will our new Best Buddies Communist China and KGB Russia think of that? Seems the World has finally discovered America is REALLY important to the World Economy. Will they pull all the Jobs out of These United States Of America? Jobs are going anyway, Outsourced by Corporations, A Body With No Head. Good. We made our OWN PRODUCTS better than any other country before with Home-Grown Entrepreneurs from Main Street and achieved the Wealthiest Economy and Standard of Living this World has every witnessed, and we can do it again. If, indeed, we are at WAR, then let us get mobilized like we did for World War II. Now THERE'S a way to quash the New Depression. BUY AMERICAN MADE AND LOCALLY PRODUCED. IMHO Thank You For Your Indulgence

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 12, 2008 | 1:14 PM

Thats right! We did make our own products, had good employement market etc.

So what changed then... Both then and now had Union Labor, we had the poor and the wealthy, sick and ill.... What would ONE thing be different now than before.....

GLOBAL WARMING/RADICAL ENVIROMENTALISM!
We FORCED the Auto industry into standards that don't even have a market yet! We obstructed any expansion, or addition to out energy business from refinery capacity, to shutting down Nuke, coal, hydro, etc.

A single Congresswoman named Carlson decades ago reported that DDT was killing the Eagles, and BAM! shut down! MILLIONS of people in Africa now die of disease, only to find out this last year that oops! DDT really wasn't a problem! In the 70s the NEW ICE AGE IS COMMING!! When that didn't happen, OMG! Y2K will be the end of civilization! Meanwhile the self appointed experts of global climate tell us Global Warming will be the end of us inside 10 years!

It won't get any better until we start being honest with ourselves. Jobs didn't go overseas because of cheap labor alone.. its to avoid global impact studies, inspections, and regulations. Its avoiding the entire company going down because of lawsuit happy people, its the second highers tax rate in the world!

shadows read my blog
Nov 12, 2008 | 1:37 PM

Abunai, you brought forth some good points.

I can't really agree about the government regulations being the reason that the American Car makers being in trouble though. Every other car that is sold in this country has to meet the same standards, and the lobbyists of the auto industry have done a very good job of enabling the auto industry to avoid penalties for such things as car mileage standards being applied to SUVs. And I believe that there was some involvement of such people as Roger Smith of General Motors on the Catalytic converter mandates.

I agree with Jeokar, that we are at war in one sense of the word. However what we should be most concerned about is the intellectual property that is being stolen by other countries at will. Our government is not protecting our intellectual property sufficiently and ideas and creativity are being used by other countries to beat us. The pirating of clothing, recordings, and other goods is costing billions. The illegal drug situation also is also costing us billions each year and needs to honestly and openly be addressed.

shadows read my blog
Nov 12, 2008 | 1:59 PM

Getting back to the topic of this blog. And in relation to people taking action in this "war," is anyone calling their congressional representatives or Senators regarding the CEOs, etc. keeping their positions and getting bail-out money? Most people seem to leave it to someone else to call and/or clean up the mess. But this "war" will require that everyone get honestly involved if we are to win it.

Industry and Banks can't blame these problems on the labor unions when they continue to keep the same poor management in place and in some cases seem to reward them. The poor decision making and greed is costing us our nation, and few citizens seem enraged enough to take any action before it is totally destroyed.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 12, 2008 | 2:33 PM

Well the other dirty little secret here is that its NOT the Auto industry in trouble! Its the UNION! The "southern" auto makers in TN are not having the problems the "nothern" are because the price of their product does NOT carry Union pension,and compensation plans.

Its the United Auto Workers Union that seeks the latest bailout...

I suggest research just how many companies actually buy rights to produce products in China instead of their home nations to avoid enviromental regulations and infrastructure. Even the military when Clinton was stealing a quarter of their budget started doing what repairs and maintainence OVERSEAS where it was much cheaper! Your Airline industry is having maintainence done overseas as well, and for the same reasons.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 12, 2008 | 2:42 PM

As to our "intellectual property" we have a choice in this country to actually teach and expand the minds of our potential intellects, but academia is more of a liberal profit machine, with idealogs pumping out more art appreciation and basket weaving degrees than engineers.

We hear all about "big oil" but never "big college." Harvard in a single endowment fund makes MILLIONS in interest alone, and the margin is over 300%! Yet now what are we getting for our money?

As to copyrights and patents/trademarks, well again, we have corperate lawyers and business law degrees all over the place.. even international law! But the best lawyer in the world can't stop the fact that NON union products, are cheaper, and MONEY TALKS!

Standing around trying to play the patriot card, to defend your right to charge higher prices in a capitalist society.... you need to check your reality meter...

shadows read my blog
Nov 12, 2008 | 7:30 PM

Abunai, you really shouldn't take everything that you read on Google at face value. The UAW is not asking for a bail-out, the auto industry is actually asking. Sure the UAW has agreements with the auto industry for such things as the UAW agreeing to assume responsibility for the health insurance of retirees in order to save the companies money, and the companies agreed to pay a certain amount to the UAW so that they could do so. The same goes for closing plants, etc.

If the contracts were not agreeable or in the best interest of the auto companies, why did management and the Board of Directors agree to them? The auto industry has clearly been mismanaged and the executives responsible should be gone.

As far as intellectual property, I was referring to foreign infringements of copyrights and patents. Why bother to invent or create something unique if it can be stolen and manufactured in another country using the same name, etc.? Even in the music business, CDs are duplicated abroad and sold as originals without the "artists" receiving any royalties from them.

Abunai, I could sense from the ending of your last comment that you are needing either some food or rest. After meeting your basic needs you should return to rational thoughts and behavior.

BTW, what does Harvard making good investments have to do with executives in the auto industry and financial industry that should be gone?

Southern auto makers? What brand of car is a "Southern" car......is it called a confederate? LOL

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 13, 2008 | 8:04 AM

LOL! I suggest shadows that you start the new administration era off by being honest with yourself and your posts, and refrain from the denial. In order to pick out that the UAW is to be the primary one to benifit from bailout requires critical thinking skills.

Non-union car plants in TN and AL for example are thriving, and even expanding! Last week a new plant was even opened in the south. Its the UNION run orgs in Detroit that are bankrupted. You might want to look at the cost per unit of hourly wage that a car out of Detroit costs, vs. non-union cars.

Theres a reason in this country that we complain about any new Walmart going up, meanwhile, the super Target, or SuperKMart goes up in the SAME TOWN and not a whisper as to what impact it will have.

The Airline industry figured it out already, and actually files for bankruptsy just as soon as it is eligible to, and breaks up the lock the Union has on them everytime.

As mentioned earlier, Tax rates, infrastructure, expensive enviromental factors, and legal protection, all account for reasons production and industry go overseas, but the ONLY factor even discussed by the "left" is Labor. Union carmakers even had to get money outside themselves just to bring their quality standards UP to the level that non-Union plants are producing...

shadows read my blog
Nov 13, 2008 | 8:35 AM

Abunai, here's a news flash for you......the auto makers in Detroit are quickly turning out big trucks again since gas prices went down....just like in the 1970s.

Here's another bit of information for you.....the UAW is not limited to Detroit. In fact it is not limited to the U.S. For example, check-out their presence in Canada.

You keep referring to auto plants in TN and AL as "thriving and even expanding." What kind of cars are you talking about? If they are American cars, why is it that the American auto makers are asking for bail-outs? And how could any car manufacturer being experiencing "thriving" business when they are are all down tremendously in sales?

The airlines are also industries that have been plagued with poor management and greed for decades.

Abunai, please take your meds or sit and meditate for a while. You need to focus.......

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 13, 2008 | 10:36 AM

Well if the UAW is now belting out big trucks again, then I guess they don't need any taxpayer money then! OR it even further proves my point! Automakers have gone back to the same business model that brought them down then!

American cars? What does that mean? Does it mean cars built in America, or simply just Union made cars...

AGAIN.... American automakers (aka the "big 3") are the ones stuck with UAW! Honda, SAAB, Toyota,and VW plants in the US are doing just fine. So you AGAIN have to ask yourself, what is the difference between them, and the answer to anyone that is honest is UNION LABOR!

Airlines plagued with poor management and greed (both on UNION and management sides) has been that way for decades FOR THE SAME REASON!!

You continue to illustrate my point!

shadows read my blog
Nov 13, 2008 | 12:05 PM

Abunai, your disillusionment is astounding. Car sales are down for Chrysler 38%, Ford 30%, Toyata 23% and Honda 25%. Even Mercedes-Benz is down by double digits. And they don't have UAW workers. Here's a link to bring you up to date:

http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/11/ford_sales_p
lummet_in_october.html

You keep talking about the UAW making cars......they are a labor union.....United Auto Workers.......not a car manufacturer.

Decisions that are made for both the airlines and the auto makers are made by management and their respective Boards. Those decisions are what has made them fail. Just a few months ago the CEO of GM said that they had enough money to last them for at least a year or two regardless of the economic conditions. Well it turns out that he was either not being truthful or else he wasn't up to date on the finances of the company. Poor management.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 13, 2008 | 1:39 PM

Yes.. I keep bringing up UAW because THAT IS WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING TO GO!

FORD, GM, etc. are even opening plants in Russia and China right now.

Japan is opening plants in other world marketplaces where it is CHEAPER.

EVERYONE is moving AWAY from American UNIONS!

Paying for more people on retirement, and paying someone 40 bucks an hour to point a screwdriver at at a screw and have pneumatic tools do all the work, is ridiculous!

Unions are so bad, that they now must open up voting, so to be able to extort the workers, and not even hidding it! My next car might just be anohter Lexis in the garage!

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 13, 2008 | 2:04 PM

shadows... finds a single story, and attempts to apply it to everyone.... Now you are trying to fillabuster the union connection to the automaker industry. 99.9% of everyone here "gets it," and the fact is, the left wing, socialist mentality is what is spraying gas on the fire instead of water...

Now I'm just waiting for libs to blame Bush for the comming depression, and not even look at who has actually been running this nation since 06...

Vlad read my blog
Nov 13, 2008 | 2:27 PM

Biggest Scam to date on planet Earth. This was all orchestrated to rip us off.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 13, 2008 | 3:53 PM

Biggest Scam... well... I think Global Warming is the top scam myself... Notice how even now after Democrats (aka liberals) won the election, we STILL are not hearing from the Climate freaks? I guess that sting of almost 5 dollar a gallon gas woke enough people up, that now they are demanding proof.

BTW- notice how this article does NOT discuss the compensation package of Union officials?...

TM6068 read my blog
Nov 13, 2008 | 5:03 PM

Come on Shadows, Abunai's many posts have good points; however, just one question, if you owned the car manufacturer...would you hire spoiled, overpaid Americans, who, at the drop of a hat, want to sue you for any reason...then they're demanding 40+/hr to put on lug nuts....
or would you move your company to another country, hire workers EAGER to work and not cry about everything...Too many news stories make the manufacturers the bad guys...the unions have outlived their usefulness. The unions have run the very folks they were supposed to protect, out of jobs....but, what about the union heads?

TM6068 read my blog
Nov 13, 2008 | 5:06 PM

instead of Global warming, it should be called global changing...just like a river erodes it's banks, the globe changes over time. history has shown, through ice core drilling, other global changes.....long before we had Toyotas...
So, while they may be some merit to global warming, Al Gore's the biggest hipocrit on the planet; with his "carbon footprint," his name should be changed to "Bigfoot."

shadows read my blog
Nov 13, 2008 | 5:23 PM

TM6068, Abunai, You seem to both be criticizing the union when the UAW was actually doing what it gets paid to do......and that is get as much as they can for their members.

The hourly workers' hourly wages and benefits for the UAW auto worker were about one-third higher than the same workers in Toyota plants in the U.S. in 2006. Meanwhile a college professor with a Ph.D. earned about the same amount each year as the non-union auto worker in the Toyota plants.

However, you are missing the point of this blog, and that is that the top management will remain in place even after receiving government bail-out money and they do not belong to a union. All that they were guilty of is leading their companies into this mess.

The worker on the assembly line doesn't make the big decisions (such as negotiating labor contracts) and doesn't get paid for doing so......it is the top management and Board that get paid to accept that responsibility and they get paid extremely well. They obviously haven't done a very good job.

Abunai read my blog view my photos
Nov 13, 2008 | 7:51 PM

LOL! EVERYONE in academia knows full well that Professors make NOTHING! They however once making tenure are like union folks... job security over risk and reward.

You forgot that it is the unions that made it harder for any re-tooling of the company. Its government that put ridiculous standards on the automakers! Autos required to have safety features out the nose, but then after all the REQUIRED materials, THEN the autos have MPG requirements! THEN with almost 60 different types of fuel blends across the country ALL must STILL meet the MPG requirements!

(mind you ethanol blends NEVER burn at a rate even close to regular gasoline, thus the cars can't meet the requirements BECAUSE GOVT REGS CLASH!!)

Between the Gov. and Unions (Which are in each other's back pocket) I'm amazed we still have the big 3!

Now Gov. and Unions are going to get rid of the secret ballot, and that is an infringement on a basic theory of our country! It is designed to go and unionize all those who are successful without them!

I say let the big 3 go into bankruptsy, kill the legal bind with the unions, and start over!

Don't feed me the sob story of all the poor workers! Didn't see anyone tossing a bone to the carpenters, and bricklaywers when the housing market died! When we stripped the military in the 90s by half, didn't see anyone help the shipbuilding workers...

Who died and left the UAW God...

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